October 16, 2024 - PBS News Hour full episode

GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On the "News Hour" tonight: With Election Day fast approaching, Donald Trump tries to appeal to women voters while Kamala Harris courts disenchanted Republicans.

GEOFF BENNETT: A former Justice Department official raises questions about whether developments in Donald Trump's election interference case could improperly influence the presidential race.

AMNA NAWAZ: And Judy Woodruff visits the swing state of Nevada, where voters who changed parties in the last election cycle could hold the key to the White House.

SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell Partners: These kind of independent swing voters break at the very end.

And so how they break in 2024 is going to matter a great deal in determining who wins the election.

(BREAK) AMNA NAWAZ: Welcome to the "News Hour."

With just 20 days until Election Day, for both 2024 presidential candidates, the battle is on to find and reach the few remaining voters who can still be persuaded.

GEOFF BENNETT: Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump held events today to try to broaden their appeal.

Here's Lisa Desjardins.

LISA DESJARDINS: Former President Donald Trump digging in at a FOX town hall, repeating that other Americans are the enemy and making a declaration unprecedented in modern times, that he would use the military to quash dissent.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: It is the enemy from within, and they're very dangerous.

They're Marxists and communists and fascists, and they're sick.

LISA DESJARDINS: Trump also on FOX made these comments Sunday: DONALD TRUMP: I think the bigger problem are the people from within.

We have some very bad people.

We have some sick people, radical left lunatics.

And I think they're the -- and it should be very easily handled by -- if necessary, by National Guard or, if really necessary, by the military.

LISA DESJARDINS: Those words, Vice President Harris has called unhinged.

KAMALA HARRIS, Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate: Donald Trump is increasingly unstable.

And as has been said by the people who have worked closely with him, even when he was president, he's not fit to be president of the United States.

LISA DESJARDINS: This as Trump was aiming to reach across the gender gap.

That FOX town hall was in front of an all-woman audience, where Trump faced questions on reproductive rights, claiming to be pro-IVF, despite Republicans recently blocking IVF legislation at the U.S. Capitol.

DONALD TRUMP: I'm the father of I -- I'm the father of IVF.

LISA DESJARDINS: On abortion, the man responsible for overturning Roe v. Wade said he now thinks some red states have gone too far with restrictions.

DONALD TRUMP: They're too tough, too tough.

And those are going to be redone, because already there's a movement in those states.

LISA DESJARDINS: Mr. Trump faces a voting gender gap.

Polls show men support the former president by 16 points, but women back his opponent by 14.

Mr. Trump faces a voting gender gap polls show men support the former president by 16 points but women back his opponent by 14 points.

For Vice President Kamala Harris today, the hunt for votes meant reaching across the aisle.

KAMALA HARRIS: No matter your party, no matter who you voted for last time, there is a place for you in this campaign.

LISA DESJARDINS: In Pennsylvania, a nearly must-win for her, Harris appeared with nearly 100 Republicans who disavowed Donald Trump.

Her message was for conservatives and others unhappy with the former president.

KAMALA HARRIS: The coalition we have built has room for everyone who is ready to turn the page on the chaos and instability of Donald Trump.

LISA DESJARDINS: With it came broader symbolism.

The event was near the site where George Washington famously crossed the Delaware River during the Revolutionary War, the president who urged voters to choose country over politics.

KAMALA HARRIS: To compose the Constitution of the United States, that work was not easy.

The founders often disagreed, often quite passionately, but, in the end, the Constitution of the United States laid out the foundations of our democracy.

And now the baton is in our hands.

LISA DESJARDINS: The vice president's courtship of those outside her party continues tonight, when she sits down for an interview with Bret Baier, her first interview on FOX News.

SEN. J.D.

VANCE (R-OH), Vice Presidential Candidate: How are you?

MAN: A pleasure meeting you.

SEN. J.D.

VANCE: Yes, good to meet you.

LISA DESJARDINS: Just like Harris, today, Republican V.P.

candidate J.D.

Vance also stopped in Pennsylvania.

The swing state will see all four candidates this week.

As he campaigned for 2024, Vance was asked about 2020 and why he has not admitted that Trump lost.

He gave a new response, fueling the lie that Trump won.

SEN. J.D.

VANCE: I think there are serious problems in 2020.

So did Donald Trump lose the election?

Not by the words that I would use, OK?

LISA DESJARDINS: And in another critical state, Georgia, the first day of early voting on Tuesday shattered records there with over 300,000 ballots cast.

State election officials say they expect another potential record today.

In polling places, the enthusiasm was palpable.

PEG TIMPONE, Georgia Voter: I think this is probably the most important voting season of our lifetime.

I think it was imperative that every single person vote to help save democracy.

MATTHEW BROWN, Georgia Voter: I think this is an existential election.

It's going to have implications for my children and my three grandsons and more to come.

LISA DESJARDINS: Also in Georgia, two court rulings yesterday blocked efforts by Republican officials to change the rules in the state.

One ruling barred election officials from refusing to certify the results.

And another said no to making the state count the final ballots by hand, pivotal decisions in a pivotal race.

For the PBS "News Hour," I'm Lisa Desjardins.

AMNA NAWAZ: We're now joined by longtime Democratic strategist James Carville.

He served as a lead adviser on Bill Clinton's presidential campaign, and he's the subject of a new documentary called "Carville: Winning Is Everything, Stupid," which chronicles his efforts to get President Biden to step down from the top of the Democratic ticket.

James Carville, welcome back to the "News Hour."

JAMES CARVILLE, Democratic Strategist: Well, thank you.

Always a privilege to be on the show.

I'm big fan, been a fan of it for a long time.

AMNA NAWAZ: Thank you, sir.

Well, let me just start by getting your take on the state of the race.

There's a new NPR analysis out today, in the seven battleground states, that it looks now like Mr. Trump has his first lead in the polling average in those specific battleground states since Harris moved to the top of the ticket.

It's a microscopic lead, less than half-a-percentage point, but I just wonder what you make of that.

JAMES CARVILLE: You know, everybody says this, but it's actually true.

In every election but one in this century, both candidates have gone about thinking they have a chance to win the election, 2008 being the only kind of exception to that.

And there's just kind of -- the polling is tight.

But what generally happens is, the election breaks one way or another toward the end.

And so we will -- but we will wait and see.

I have no prediction or anything like that.

I'm just trying to work as hard as I can.

But it's -- everything indicates that there's tight polling everywhere.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, with 20 days left, what do you think it would take to break one way or the next?

There's no sort of big events left on the calendar, right?

JAMES CARVILLE: Well, I think that -- I mean, to be honest, I think that vice president, the campaign is getting sharper.

It's getting more visible.

And, frankly, he's getting, if anything, less attached to reality, even for him, than I have seen before.

I mean, some of the stuff that he's out there saying is really wild.

And then you had that weird rally, 39-minute, I don't know what you call it, but there's some -- I think he's suffering from what I call my mamentia (ph), madness and dementia at the same time.

There's considerable evidence that he's in pretty severe state of deterioration right now, and we will just have to keep monitoring it.

But -- and I think she's doing a little better.

I really do.

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask you about one piece of advice you offered specifically to the Harris campaign in an op-ed last month.

You wrote this: "To be the certified fresh candidate, Ms. Harris must clearly and decisively break from Mr. Biden on a set of policy priorities she believes would define her presidency."

In your view, has she done that enough?

JAMES CARVILLE: Well, she has an 81-page economic plan that she's looking forward.

I -- like many other people, she was asked a question in a town hall.

She pointed to all the plan and the things that she's going to do.

The truth of the matter is, because President Biden has been a somewhat different president than President Obama was, who's been a somewhat different president than President Clinton was.

But she has her own ideas.

They are articulated in a plan.

And she -- I think she could talk about that more and more.

I do, absolutely.

AMNA NAWAZ: And she's adopted a somewhat unconventional media strategy, which you just sort of referenced there too.

She's been going on podcasts like "Call Her Daddy" to directly reach millions of women, on FOX to directly speak to Republicans.

JAMES CARVILLE: Right.

AMNA NAWAZ: There's reports she could go on Joe Rogan's show now.

She's done Howard Stern.

Are these sort of high-risk, potentially high-reward scenarios for her?

JAMES CARVILLE: Well, you know, she -- I'm not worried about her anymore.

She's gotten a lot better.

She's performed at the convention.

She's performed during the debate.

She's been on any number of different media platforms, and she's performed well.

I think what they're trying to do is get her in front of as many people as they possibly can.

And the strategy that they decided, obviously, we're going to do a lot of interviews.

And that's fine.

And I have seen a lot more visibility from her than I'd seen between the debate and this past weekend.

So I'm very encouraged that she's out.

She's doing a lot of different kind of forums that talk to different kinds of people.

And I think that's a good idea.

And she's doing it quite well, frankly.

AMNA NAWAZ: James, as you have seen, the gender gap in this race is one of the defining features of this campaign cycle.

You have got Harris with a 14-point lead among women, Trump with a 16-point lead among men.

And we have seen that Harris' support with young men in particular has been sliding.

What's your view on that?

Why do you think so many men have trouble supporting her?

JAMES CARVILLE: Well, let's just back up a second.

What she's really doing well is with white college-educated men.

I think that's a key demographic for her.

It is true that she's not doing quite as well with young nonwhite males as we did in 2020.

But she's doing better in other male demographics.

And I think she's going to have to improve on that, absolutely.

I have been very outspoken about the Democrats.

Males are 48 percent of this electorate.

We have to take it seriously.

And I think we can do a little bit better.

But there's no doubt that we're not hitting the numbers we need to among males.

AMNA NAWAZ: James, I just want to ask you about the money in all of this too, because the latest FEC filing show the Democrats have a huge fund-raising advantage, especially over the last three months, over the Republicans and former President Trump.

So in these last 20 days, what kind of a difference can that money make and where should it go?

JAMES CARVILLE: Well, first of all, if it didn't make any difference, everybody's trying to raise as much as they can.

So somebody thinks it matters.

But if you look beyond the money, you look at volunteers.

I mean, they're flooded with volunteers.

Trump does -- has no ground game.

So we have never known what it means to have a robust GOTV effort, a robust voter contact effort.

And every place I have talked to Democrats is really, really putting this together.

And he's not putting anything together.

I think he's trying to outsource some of it.

But we do have a fund-raising advantage.

We have an enthusiasm advantage.

We have a volunteer advantage.

I think we have a visibility advantage.

And you just got to keep pressing your advantages as you get close and close to the election date.

And, hopefully, these tied -- I tell people the polling is 48-48.

That's just the way it is.

And, hopefully, as we get close to the election, it'll break her away.

That's the hope.

I think it can happen.

AMNA NAWAZ: It's always great to speak with you.

Always great to hear your insights and your thoughts.

That is longtime Democratic strategist James Carville joining us tonight.

James, thank you.

JAMES CARVILLE: Thank you very much.

You bet.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the day's other news: Israel resumed punishing airstrikes on Beirut's southern suburbs and across Central and Southern Lebanon.

More than 130 strikes targeted what Israel says were Hezbollah operatives and locations.

Israel's military also said more than 90 Hezbollah rockets were fired into Northern Israel today.

Special correspondent Leila Molana-Allen reports.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Slim hopes for a cease-fire dashed.

Yesterday, Lebanon's caretaker prime minister said he'd had guarantees from the United States that the bombing of Beirut would cease.

Today's skyline told a different story.

After a few days of relief, the bombardment of the capital's southern suburbs resumed, heavier than ever.

There's been a huge increase in the intensity and frequency of the airstrikes here, and now much of these southern suburbs are devastated.

It's one of the most heavily populated areas around Beirut.

And that means that tens of thousands of people have been removed from their homes.

In the southern city of Nabatiyeh, a meeting of the mayor and his municipal workers became this region's next graveyard.

The target of the Israeli strike here was the city's crisis management hub, meeting to organize and distribute aid to displaced families.

Mayor Ahmad Khalil and his team were all killed.

The death toll is 16 and rising.

More than 50 were injured.

As volunteer first responders tried to save their colleagues, they sent out desperate voice messages.

MAN (through translator): The mayor's inside.

Everyone's inside.

No one could survive this.

They're all dead.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: When the IDF told Nabatiyeh's residents to leave earlier this month, Ahmad and his team refused.

They felt they had to stay to help the thousands of Lebanese still stuck and increasingly cut off by the bombardment in towns and villages across the governorate.

Dania is one of a group of mothers in Beirut raising funds to help provide essentials to the more than 1.2 million Lebanese made homeless by this war.

She was coordinating with Ahmad's team.

DANIA DANDASHLI, Volunteer: They specifically said they wanted milk and baby diapers.

Two hours later, we got the news that there was a raid on the municipality that was organizing all the relief efforts, and we learned that the person that we were on the phone with was killed.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Many here from across Lebanon's political and religious spectrum increasingly view this as a war waged against them, not just by Israel, but by its main backer, the United States, including some of its own citizens.

DANIA DANDASHLI: They had every opportunity to have stopped this war, and they refused.

They refused.

They continued to send weapons to Israel with taxes I'm paying for, because I am an American citizen.

I mean, the carte blanche that the Biden administration is giving the Israelis, what it means is death, what it means is killing, what it means is destruction.

It means destroying villages, destroying homes, destroying our trust in the world.

We have lost trust in the world.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: And every day, as the world watches, more death and destruction unfolds here.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Leila Molana-Allen in Beirut.

AMNA NAWAZ: Also today, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy laid out his so-called victory plan to his country's Parliament.

The five-part plan includes a formal invitation to join NATO and permission to use Western-supplied weapons to strike deep into Russian territory, among other measures.

Both steps have met with resistance by Ukraine's allies so far, but speaking to lawmakers, Zelenskyy insisted these measures are needed.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President (through translator): We Ukrainians together, with our partners, must change the circumstances so that the war ends regardless of what Putin wants.

We must all change the circumstances, so that Russia is forced to peace.

AMNA NAWAZ: Russian officials brushed off the plan, calling it -- quote -- "a set of incoherent slogans."

And Western leaders don't fully support Zelenskyy's plan either, with the head of NATO, Mark Rutte, stopping short of an endorsement.

MARK RUTTE, NATO Secretary-General: I will not comment on every element in the plan, but it is, of course, a strong signal from Zelenskyy and his team that they designed this plan, that they are now taking it forward.

That doesn't mean that I here can say I support the whole plan.

AMNA NAWAZ: Zelenskyy spoke this afternoon to President Biden, who has also declined to publicly support the victory plan, but the White House did announce a new $425 million security package for Ukraine today.

Nebraska's High Court ruled today that felons who have completed their sentences can register to vote.

The state legislature had passed a law that restored voting rights for felons earlier this year, but Republican Secretary of State Bob Evnen deemed it unconstitutional.

Today's ruling says he did not have authority to do that.

The decision could have national implications, given that mostly red Nebraska splits its Electoral College votes by congressional district.

Many who can now register to vote live in the Omaha area.

Their ballots could impact both an Electoral College vote and a closely contested House race there.

A judge in Nevada has sentenced a former Las Vegas area politician to 28 years in prison for the murder of investigative journalist Jeff German of The Las Vegas Review-Journal.

A jury found Robert Telles guilty of killing German in August after he wrote articles critical of Telles' conduct in office.

The judge added eight years to the minimum 20-year sentence set by the jury for Telles, citing his use of a deadly weapon in the crime.

Telles had denied killing German.

His attorney says he plans to appeal to conviction.

In Nigeria, more than 140 people, including children, are confirmed dead after a gasoline tanker crashed on a highway and burst into flames.

Dozens more were injured.

It happened in the country's northern Jigawa state.

Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa, but it lacks an efficient railway system to transport cargo like petrol.

Cell phone video captured the fiery scene overnight.

By morning, the tank's wreckage was still upturned on the road.

Witnesses say that many victims were trying to salvage the spilled fuel with cups and buckets when the truck exploded into flames.

EMMANUEL ISAAC, Nigeria Resident: When you travel around Nigeria, what you see is hunger.

And when people get hunger, they get -- hungry -- they get desperate.

When that person sees an opportunity to make money from scooping fuel, they would take that chance.

I think we need to do better as a community.

We need to do better as a nation.

People cannot just continue to live a life of hunger.

AMNA NAWAZ: Deadly tanker accidents are common in Nigeria, where vehicles often fail to meet international standards on preventing fuel spillage; 48 people were killed in a similar crash last month.

Italy has made it illegal for people to go abroad to have children through surrogacy.

The country's Senate passed that measure today after a seven-hour debate.

It expands on a ban on the practice that's been in place in Italy since 2004.

The government's conservative majority says it is seeking to protect women's dignity.

Critics say it's meant to target same-sex couples.

Italians who seek surrogacy in places like the U.S. or Canada can face up to two years in jail and more than a million dollars in fines.

On Wall Street today, stocks ended higher after some strong earnings from corporate America.

The Dow Jones industrial average added more than 300 points to close back above the 43,000-point level.

The Nasdaq rose about 50 points on the day.

The S&P 500 also ended in positive territory.

And family members, pop stars and dignitaries of the Democratic Party paid tribute today to Ethel Kennedy, the late widow of Robert F. Kennedy, at a funeral service in Washington, D.C. Former presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama attended.

Current President Joe Biden delivered the eulogy.

JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: Ethel was a hero in her own right, full of character, full of integrity and empathy, genuine empathy.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ethel Kennedy carried on her late husband's work following his assassination in 1968.

She also raised their 11 children.

Ethel Kennedy died last week at the age of 96.

Still to come on the "News Hour": swing voters in Nevada explain their views on this year's election;the efforts to find dozens of North Carolina residents still missing weeks after Hurricane Helene; and a Russian metal sculptor who opposes the war in Ukraine makes a new life in Oregon.

GEOFF BENNETT: As former President Donald Trump's election interference case continues to make its way through a D.C. federal court, some legal analysts are questioning the Justice Department's handling of the case.

After a federal judge this month unsealed a legal brief from special counsel Jack Smith containing new evidence in the case, a debate has focused on why the DOJ allowed the collection of evidence to be released so close to Election Day, with some arguing it could influence the presidential race.

One of those scholars is Jack Goldsmith, whose recent essay in "The New York Times" is titled "Jack Smith Owes Us an Explanation."

Goldsmith is a former assistant attorney general in the George W. Bush administration and now a professor at Harvard Law.

We spoke with him yesterday.

Jack Goldsmith, thanks for being with us.

JACK GOLDSMITH, Harvard Law School: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: When you say Jack Smith owes us an explanation, you take particular issue with the timing of his brief.

What do you say to those who argue that the special counsel was simply complying with the rules that Judge Chutkan, the judge in this case, laid out?

JACK GOLDSMITH: Well, the Justice Department has a set of norms, one of which is the so-called 60-day rule that says you don't take an action or make a disclosure that's close to the election that could impact the election.

And the judge asked the special counsel whether he had any objection to having these disclosures close to the election.

He said he had no objection at all.

So he seemed to think that there was no prohibition on doing so.

And he had no objection to her timing and releasing it before the election.

GEOFF BENNETT: It's my understanding that the special counsel has said on the record that the Justice Department's internal so-called 60-day rule does not apply to cases that have already been charged or that are being litigated, to which you would say what?

JACK GOLDSMITH: I would say that I don't think he's made that clear at all.

I think you're referring to a confused colloquy in the Miami documents case.

There was a very important inspector general report in 2018 about -- that talked about the 60-day rule.

Its dominant understanding as conveyed in that report was that the rule prohibits disclosures or actions close to the election that impact the election.

There were some people that believed what you just said.

But the inspector general said in 2018 that this is -- rule needs clarity.

And the Justice Department never gave clarity.

And they haven't explained why this disclosure was consistent with these norms.

GEOFF BENNETT: Is there a rule or a policy or an expectation that prosecutors, conversely, would sit and wait for the outcome of an election that could determine whether or not this case could even move forward?

JACK GOLDSMITH: This case is completely unprecedented, so I don't know what the proper expectation is with regard to that question.

The point I have raised is that there is this rule, it was a big issue in 2016, as you recall, it was an issue in 2020, about not having disclosures that impact an election.

And the only thing I'm asking for is for the department to explain clearly why it thinks that what it did is consistent with that norm.

It's very important that the department has these norms, so that -- to ensure that not only that they, in fact, don't act politically, but they appear not to act politically.

And this is an unprecedented prosecution of a former president by an administration that is headed by the president and the vice president, who were and are running against this president in this election.

And in this context, more than any other context in the department's history, because this is the most sensitive investigation in its history, it needs to be really clear and explicit about why it's complying with these norms.

And it just hasn't been.

GEOFF BENNETT: There are also those who take issue with the Supreme Court's role in all of this, that the court, with its conservative majority, refused Jack Smith's request to expedite consideration of Donald Trump's claim of presidential immunity, and that the ultimate ruling on immunity has further delayed consideration.

JACK GOLDSMITH: It's true that the ruling on immunity further delayed consideration.

That's absolutely true, but that's irrelevant to Smith's duty to comply with the norms about not impacting or appearing to impact an election.

So what the court did -- and we can debate that if you like, but what the court did delay the trial which Smith was pushing to try to have before the election, which also raised questions under department norms.

There's no doubt that what the court did delayed the trial, but that's not relevant to Smith's duties in the run-up to the election.

GEOFF BENNETT: Why hasn't the DOJ, in your view, cleared up some of these perceived questions about this 60-day rule?

JACK GOLDSMITH: It's a real mystery to me.

This was -- again, the inspector general in a widely read report in 2018 explained that this rule was ambiguous and uncertain and needed to be clarified.

He asked for clarification.

It's been six years now and the department hasn't clarified, and I don't know why.

It's exactly what I think the department should be doing.

They should have clarified it, in my opinion, before this most sensitive of prosecutions, and they should have explained what the rules were up front before they started applying them in secret to tell us.

Let me be clear.

I really do believe that the department believes it's complying with all relevant norms.

It's stated so.

Attorney General Garland has stated so, and I believe that they believe that.

All I'm asking for is that they explain it to the public, so that it doesn't appear like they're acting or allowing disclosures that could impact the election.

GEOFF BENNETT: Does this raise questions for you about the special counsel's work or approach moving forward?

JACK GOLDSMITH: I mean, this is the case -- this is the only case where this is relevant for the election.

I don't believe that there's anything going on right now in the documents case that I'm aware of that implicates this concern.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jack Goldsmith, thanks so much for joining us and sharing your insights.

We appreciate it.

JACK GOLDSMITH: Thank you so much.

AMNA NAWAZ: In a deeply divided electorate, one group of voters is increasingly coveted by both sides, swing voters.

In the swing state of Nevada, Judy Woodruff recently listened to two groups of voters who chose Donald Trump in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020, as they discussed their thoughts on the state of the race and the country.

It's part of her ongoing series America at a Crossroads.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Las Vegas, the crown jewel of the critical swing state of Nevada, the most important Democratic stronghold in a hotly contested purple state.

Vegas is a hub for tourism, entertainment, and spectacle, but behind the flashing lights of the Strip, Democrats and Republicans are scrambling to shore up support for their respective candidates.

And even in a state where Democrats narrowly won in 2016 and 2020, one name looms above the rest.

PIERRE, Nevada Voter: I thought Trump as a businessman would be able to do something that professional politicians could not do.

BARBARA, Nevada Voter: I like the fact that he is a businessman.

I figured that could bring fresh ideas to the table for the economy and he was not a politician, which I thought would be refreshing.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Everyone in these two focus groups voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

MARGIE, Nevada Voter: Was I duped?

I was.

And ten the election was passed.

Trump did not ever shut up, because I thought, well, maybe if he gets in, he will shut up.

He didn't.

RICHIE, Nevada Voter: I was gung-ho Trump.

But then, after we went through that time period, he started kind of going off the rails a little bit.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But, In 2020, they soured on President Trump and checked the box for Joe Biden.

BRYAN, Nevada Voter: I am sure they both want the best for the country.

And I'm for that, but Trump, I just feel, would just say or do something wrong and just cause more chaos.

PIERRE: I thought that for all of the positives he may have created in his four years, his divisiveness was ridiculous.

He could not leave the good things alone.

He had to follow it up with something that made you shake your head and go, really?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Republican strategist and host of "The Focus Group" podcast, Sarah Longwell.

SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell Partners: A lot of times, elections are decided by the way that these kind of independent swing voters break at the very end.

And so how they break in 2024 is going to matter a great deal in determining who wins the election.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Longwell is the publisher of The Bulwark, a center-right media outlet opposed to Donald Trump.

She runs focus groups like these across the country, using a nonpartisan approach to better understand all voters' thinking.

From the control room of Vegas PBS, I watched as she engaged with these 14 Nevadans on a range of issues.

Is it possible to know what percentage roughly of the electorate this group represents, the Trump-to-Biden voters?

SARAH LONGWELL: People who went from Trump to Biden, that is much closer to a 6 or 7 percent swing, but they are determinative when it comes to who wins elections in these critical swing states.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Their reactions to President Biden's performance so far were mixed.

SARAH LONGWELL: How many people would give Joe Biden an A during his time as president?

How many would give him a B?

Barbara is a B.

How many would give him a C?

We have got four C's.

How many would give him a D?

Are you an F, Pierre?

PIERRE: He's an F. (LAUGHTER) SARAH LONGWELL: OK. PIERRE: We are at a high rate right now of food insecurity.

People don't know where they're going to eat.

So, as long as that's the case, then the economy is not moving forward for the masses of this country.

RUBEN, Nevada Voter: Things are too expensive nowadays.

The cost of living is definitely going up.

And we definitely need to find a president or get a president that will able to lead this country in the right way.

JUDY WOODRUFF: For some of these voters, Vice President Harris' rise at the top of the ticket was caused for enthusiasm.

SARAH LONGWELL: How many of you were glad to see Vice President Kamala Harris take over for Joe Biden?

Yes, raise your hand if you were glad.

MARGIE: I was not for her.

And then, all of a sudden, when it went in, I was so surprised.

I felt like I had a breath of fresh air.

It was shocking to me.

But I think it was like, oh, my gosh, somebody else.

And it just infused so much energy.

And I was like, oh, I like this.

BRYAN: I just want something new.

I want some forward thinking.

I don't want to be living back, like, being told what to do, women can't do this.

But, like, if a guy can get pregnant, there'd probably be abortion clinics on every corner.

And it's just sad that that's the way it seems.

Like, Trump just wants that power.

And his followers are just like, yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Others felt they still needed to know more about her.

NICOLE, Nevada Voter: I'm very uncertain about her.

There's just a feeling.

And I'm going to do lots more research before I do vote.

There are rumors and things that I need to research more.

Still leaning towards him a little bit more.

SARAH LONGWELL: Rumors about her.

Like, what kind of rumors?

NICOLE: Sleeping her way to the top.

Anybody can say that about a woman.

I'm tired of hearing that.

Hopefully, it's not true.

MARGIE: Well, what about the men that slept their way to the top?

There's a lot of them.

NICOLE: There are.

Yes.

(CROSSTALK) MARGIE: We should give them both... (CROSSTALK) MARGIE: I mean, Trump's done a lot of that.

So, hey, there you go.

NICOLE: He's had how many wives?

But, yes, no, I'm tired of hearing it about women.

Like, because just she went to school.

She has... MEAGAN, Nevada Voter: So why bring it up now?

NICOLE: These are rumors that I need to research.

MEAGAN: OK. NICOLE: That's what I said.

MARIA, Nevada Voter: But she was elected to all of her positions.

So there is no sleeping her way to the top with that.

JUDY WOODRUFF: We heard skepticism about Vice President Harris' record on the economy, despite low unemployment, falling inflation and record numbers in the markets.

ANDREW, Nevada Voter: I just don't see a real plan that we're going to have a better economy in four years.

SARAH LONGWELL: What about you?

PIERRE: I think it's just going to be four more years of Bidenomics and what we have just gone through with President Biden.

And that's going to be a disaster for the United States.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But there were also concerns about how former President Trump would use his power if reelected.

BARBARA: I think he's running for himself to keep himself out of jail.

He's a convicted felon.

I don't trust him.

I don't believe he respects the Constitution and he will come in and he will change as much as he can.

And I worry we will become a dictatorship in the United States.

RICHIE: She snagged that dictatorship word from me right before I was going to use it.

And I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to pass a thing where he can stay president for the rest of his life.

So... SARAH LONGWELL: Does the fact that Donald Trump didn't engage in the peaceful transfer of power, did that -- does that bother you?

PIERRE: It bothered me.

But at the same time, I have watched Trump ever since he was in New York in the '80s.

I expect -- I don't expect him to do the right thing in most circumstances, because he never has before.

But the rhetoric and what have you between the two parties, it was there before Trump showed up.

He just brought it to light to the American public that didn't know it was going on.

JUDY WOODRUFF: I asked Longwell, why she thought some of these voters were planning on voting for Trump despite their concerns.

SARAH LONGWELL: People have a lot of reasons when it comes to Donald Trump.

Like, they have very firm opinions on him.

And so the question really is for a lot of these swing voters, no matter how much they dislike Donald Trump, does their belief that Donald Trump is better for the economy or immigration, does that move them back to him?

Or have they decided that they still dislike Donald Trump and are willing to vote for a Democrat?

Or are they actually being persuaded that Kamala Harris is the right person at this moment?

JUDY WOODRUFF: There was one thing most everyone agreed on.

SARAH LONGWELL: How many of you think our politics has gotten worse over the last 10 years?

Why do you think it's gotten worse?

BARBARA: It's more political violence in our own country.

I mean, look at the insurrection.

That's unprecedented, terrible.

And people don't respect each other's differences anymore.

You can't have a civil conversation if you disagree with a lot of people.

You're just, like, seen as the enemy, both sides.

PIERRE: There's more money in this country now than there's ever been.

And each party is trying to get some of that money.

And they're trying to grab at it with both hands and their toes.

SARAH LONGWELL: Do you think that there's something really wrong with how people in the country are viewing politics right now?

CARLIE, Nevada Voter: I think everyone has their right to their own opinion, and it shouldn't cause violence or any, like, disdain between people, because it's really not that important.

I mean, it is important, but, like, aren't our relationships with each other more important, like, our everyday life?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Still many said they feel political divisions in their own families.

MEAGAN: Well, my sister and my parents don't speak.

And they haven't for, like, three years now.

And what sparked it was politics.

JUDY WOODRUFF: On the question of which candidate would do more to bring the country together, the consensus among these swing voters was clear.

SARAH LONGWELL: Do you think the country will become more divided under Trump or less divided under Trump?

How many of you think it will become more divided under Trump?

How many of you think it will become less divided under Trump?

Less divided?

How many of you think Trump will bring us back together and heal our divides?

DEREK, Nevada Voter: I just think Trump will make the economy better, but he won't bring us back together.

I don't think that at all.

SARAH LONGWELL: Even people who were saying that they were going to vote for Donald Trump do not think that he is going to do anything to heal the divisions in the country.

And I think that this is something that is very common among this type of swing voter, which is, if they can get there on Donald Trump, if they're willing to go back and vote for him again, it is almost always in spite of his personality, in spite of his rhetoric, in spite of the fact that they don't necessarily think he's good for the country in a number of ways.

But they tend to on a couple of key issues believe that Donald Trump would be better than more or less any Democrat.

JUDY WOODRUFF: For this still-undecided voter, a decision remained just out of reach.

RICHIE: I'm not Republican, Democrat.

I'm more I just want what's best.

SARAH LONGWELL: Who will you vote for?

RICHIE: I can't commit.

There's so many things we haven't even gotten into.

There's so many good things on one side and so many good things on the other side and so many bad on each.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Pollster Sarah Longwell told us these swing voters are typically more accepting of people who disagree with them than are die-hard Republicans and Democrats.

But they are clearly as worried as anyone about the country's divisions.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Las Vegas, Nevada.

GEOFF BENNETT: It has been nearly three weeks since Hurricane Helene began its devastating march across the southeast, killing at least 230 people in six states.

Nowhere has the storm's impact been more destructive than in Western North Carolina, where entire communities were swept away, thousands remain without power, and search crews continue to hunt for at least 80 people who are still unaccounted for.

To help us understand the complexity of that search and the challenges those teams are facing, we're joined now by Ryan Cole.

He's the emergency services assistant director for Buncombe County, home to Asheville, and has been on the ground working on this recovery.

Thanks so much for being with us.

We appreciate it.

RYAN COLE, Emergency Services Assistant Director, Buncombe County, North Carolina: Thank you, Geoff.

Thanks for having us.

GEOFF BENNETT: How is the recovery process progressing, especially this process of trying to find the people who are still unaccounted for?

RYAN COLE: So, Geoff, we have worked through several lists of people where they have been unaccounted for, and we're still working to try to identify those people that are still missing or unaccounted for.

And, as we do that, then we are doing targeted searches in specific areas where -- the high probability that we might be able to locate any of the victims.

Whenever we go out, those targeted searches include removing large amounts of debris and working through hazardous materials and other items to be able to try to work through those piles to get to victims that might be in those areas.

GEOFF BENNETT: Paint a picture for us of the challenges facing your team.

How destructive was Helene to Asheville and Buncombe County?

RYAN COLE: So we had some significant destructions down the watersheds through the river valleys from flooding.

We had significant damage there throughout the watersheds as it took out the sides of the hills.

When you're looking in flatlands and you have flooding, the water rises up and it just inundates an area with slow-moving water or no-moving water.

In the mountains and the watersheds, as that water comes up and we have significant rainfall, then that goes down through the mountain valleys collecting all the water as it goes, creating significant turbulence and destroying things in its path, taking out trees, taking out cars, buildings, anything in its path.

However, on top of the flooding, we also had significant landslides that occurred in the ridges as well.

Due to the rains and the unstable ground that we had from nine inches of rain prior to the storm even arriving, the ground was saturated with water.

And as more of the rain come in, it caused some of that land to dislodge and start down the hill.

Once it starts down the hill, it takes everything in its path, homes, cars, forest, everything through that, until it comes to a stopping point.

GEOFF BENNETT: The governor of North Carolina, Roy Cooper, yesterday spoke of what he called a persistent and dangerous flow of misinformation concerning FEMA and the recovery effort.

How has that affected the work that you and your teams are doing?

RYAN COLE: We have had misinformation that has been out.

And any time that we have misinformation that occurs, that slows our progress to be able to help out the citizens in most need.

FEMA has been on the ground and in partnership with us, along with the state of North Carolina, and many resources throughout the state and throughout the United States to assist us in the process of getting to recovery.

GEOFF BENNETT: Helene was followed directly by Milton and much of the country's focus shifted to Florida.

What does Western North Carolina need right now to get back on its feet?

RYAN COLE: The first thing, first and foremost, the greatest thing that we need is to remain in the thoughts and prayers of the people across the United States.

That's the greatest thing that we can use right now.

But the biggest thing that we are facing is the infrastructure that we have lost.

The power companies have done a significant job in Western North Carolina in restoring the power.

Responders have done a significant job throughout the communities and supporting each individual community and taking care of them.

We have had volunteers that have supported through donations and getting things out to the community to support those people.

But now we have the infrastructure issues with roadways that are gone.

Many roadways are built alongside of the riverbanks.

And those riverbanks, as they flooded, they took out those roadways.

And it's going to take quite a while to build that up.

I know a lot of people are looking.

They want to do something.

They want to give.

So the one thing that we ask is, if you're looking to give, look for those monetary donations that you can do, to some of our partnering organizations, such as United Way, but continue to give us your thoughts and prayers in this community and the support that you have given us so far.

GEOFF BENNETT: Ryan Cole, thanks for your time this evening, sir.

We appreciate it.

RYAN COLE: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: The ongoing war in Ukraine has impacted tens of millions of people, including Russians who have Ukrainian relatives.

Special correspondent Cat Wise recently spent a day with a Russian artist whose life took a dramatic turn after the war broke out in 2022.

Her report is part of our arts and culture series, Canvas.

CAT WISE: The walk to work in downtown Bend, Oregon, is fairly short these days for artist Anton Yakushev, but it's a long way from home.

Yakushev, who is 39, was born and raised in a city on the outskirts of Moscow called Kolomna.

Today, he's an internationally recognized metal sculptor who has spent a lot of time over the past 20 years working with forges and fire.

His craft requires patience and speed.

After the metal is hot enough, he has less than a minute to shape it.

ANTON YAKUSHEV, Metal Sculptor (through translator): I studied to become an artist.

After I tried working with metal, I realized this is the material I would use my entire life.

CAT WISE: His intricate works, which can be found, among other places, on the streets of Russia and in a Memphis museum, may look like they were cast from molds, but they are all hand-forged.

Seamless welds and carefully placed rivets hold together the individual pieces of each sculpture.

ANTON YAKUSHEV (through translator): I simply consider myself first an artist and only then a blacksmith.

I don't want to prove anything, to explain anything with my art.

First and foremost, this is my world, and then people connect to it and understand something, find something of their own in it, draw their own things.

My art allows people to fantasize.

This is my favorite hammer.

This is for forge very huge metal.

CAT WISE: Yakushev's distinctive approach to metal art has been sought after, taking him from Russia to international museums, art schools and professional workshops, where he's been invited to teach, and artistic competitions, where he's received recognitions and awards.

But for the last 2.5 years, Bend and this workshop have been his life and his refuge.

Yakushev and his wife, Katia, who is also Russian, arrived in the U.S. in mid-February 2022 to teach at blacksmithing events.

KATIA YAKUSHEV, Wife of Anton Yakushev: We were planning to spend in the States about three months, and then Russia invaded Ukraine in -- at the end of February.

And we realized that we're not able to go back to Russia.

CAT WISE: Going back, they say, would have put Yakushev, who spent a lot of time with family in Ukraine when he was younger and opposes the Russian government, at risk of jail or worse.

ANTON YAKUSHEV (through translator): When the war broke out, it cut through everything and completely broke me, because I spent half my life in Ukraine.

My mother's Ukrainian.

It was already an extreme point with Crimea, and, of course, eventually, the war.

CAT WISE: After Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine a decade ago, Yakushev joined protests and refused to participate in a government-backed art project celebrating the annexation.

How were you impacted as an artist by your political views, your opposition to the government?

ANTON YAKUSHEV (through translator): I was cut off everywhere.

I wasn't accepted into competitions.

I wasn't accepted to the union of artists of Russia.

There was a block on me everywhere.

CAT WISE: His opposition has also come through in his art, including a series of haunting soldier sculptures he began making in 2012 with his brother, who is also a metal artist, called The Leaves Cover the War.

The works were created with old metal they found in World War II era battlefields in Russia.

ANTON YAKUSHEV (through translator): This was the main idea of our works, to show all the horrors of the war, and that it is the most horrible thing that can happen to someone, and, in fact, the world.

CAT WISE: The turmoil in their own lives following the outbreak of the war is fading day by day as the couple have adjusted to their new life in Bend, where a community of fellow artists and blacksmiths have been offering support.

Once an essential craft, today, there are estimated to be only 2,500 professional blacksmiths in the U.S. And one of them is Joe Elliott.

JOE ELLIOTT, Blacksmith: He's going to be influencing the world of metal working for a very long time to come.

CAT WISE: Elliott, who's been a blacksmith in the Bend area for the past 40 years, first met Yakushev in 2019 at a workshop.

JOE ELLIOTT: We made a praying mantis, and I remember him rolling out the drawing, and we taped it to the board, and it was -- the drawing itself which just drop-dead that gorgeous.

CAT WISE: Now they see each other just about every day.

Elliott owns the forge business where Yakushev has been working, and they often collaborate.

Earlier this year, Elliott and Yakushev worked with several other local artists on a life-size eagle, now on permanent display at the High Desert Museum in Bend.

JOE ELLIOTT: Having him in the shop puts a new wind in my sails.

But Anton has brought to me this whole other way of looking at metal, coming up with this substantial piece by lots of little pieces, and I'm fascinated by it.

CAT WISE: Yakushev has also been learning from Elliott, who has encouraged him to explore new art forms like jewelry.

Some of those pieces and others are now for sale at the workshop, online, and will be shown at upcoming art shows by the couple who are now focused on their future.

Their application for permanent asylum in the U.S. was recently approved.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Cat Wise in Bend, Oregon.

GEOFF BENNETT: Before we go, a news update that shocked fans across the music world.

Liam Payne, a former singer for the acclaimed boy band One Direction, fell to his death from the third-floor balcony of a hotel in Argentina's capital, Buenos Aires.

Argentine police and medics on scene say Payne succumbed to extremely serious injuries.

Liam Payne was 31 years old.

And that's the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On behalf of the entire "News Hour" team, thank you for joining us.