New details about Chinese balloon’s spying capabilities revealed by U.S.

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• Amna Nawaz:

  Today, the Biden administration released new details on how it says a Chinese balloon spied on the United States last week. But administration officials also faced bipartisan questions from senators about why they let it fly across the country, instead of shooting it down earlier.

  Nick Schifrin is here now to discuss all of that.

  Nick, good to see you.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Thanks very much, Amna.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So what did we learn today? What new details about how this balloon worked?

• Nick Schifrin:

  U.S. officials say that this was part of an international program that the Chinese have launched of spy balloons that they say flew across 40 countries across five continents.

  The balloon that we're talking about here was 200-feet-tall and had a jetliner size payload. And according to a senior State Department official, it was — quote — "capable of conducting signals intelligence collection operations."

  What does that mean? It means it can pick up communications from U.S. military bases as it flew over them. The official said — quote — "It had multiple antennas, to include an array likely capable of collecting and geolocating communications and solar panels large enough to produce the requisite power to operate multiple active intelligence collection sensors."

  Now, officials say they're making this public, something that the intelligence community has historically resisted, because they are trying to pull back the curtain on Chinese spying. They're trying to refute what Beijing said today, that the U.S. was waging a campaign of — quote — "information warfare."

  Also today, the House of Representatives passed a resolution unanimously that calls out China's — quote — "brazen violation of U.S. sovereignty" and also "efforts to deceive the international community through false claims about its intelligence collection campaigns."

  That shows, Amna, at least on a general level, Washington's anger with Beijing right now.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So, bipartisan support for that resolution, right, but not when it comes to how the administration handled this, when they chose to shoot it down.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Very much not, and especially on that last point you just said, when the administration chose to shoot it down.

  The balloon arrived in U.S. airspace on January 28, traversed through Canada, then reentered the continental United States. It was 10 days, on February 4, that an F-22 shot it down. And today we heard from the Senate in the Appropriations Defense Subcommittee that the anger that those 10 days, what was the balloon was doing, the anger was bipartisan, both from Montana Democrat Jon Tester and Maine Republicans Susan Collins.

• Sen. Jon Tester (D-MT):

  I got a problem with a Chinese balloon flying over my state, much less the rest of the country.

• Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME):

  It defies belief that there was not a single opportunity to safely shoot down this spy balloon prior to the coast of South Carolina.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Now, publicly, the administration officials have said that they didn't shoot it down earlier because of the risk to people on the ground if it had shot it down, given the size, and also that the military limited the balloon's ability to collect intelligence, essentially, that they shot down some of the communications in these bases as the balloon flew over those bases.

  The military said the same today. But officials also made two additional points in this hearing. They pointed out that Atlantic waters were actually ideal to salvage the balloon, so that they could collect parts of the balloon to understand what it did, as opposed to waters in Alaska, which were deeper, colder and covered with ice.

  Take a listen to Melissa Dalton, the assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense.

  Melissa Dalton, U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense: If we had taken it down over the state of Alaska, which is part of the United States, it would have been a very different recovery operation.

  A key part of the calculus for this operation was the ability to salvage, understand and exploit the capabilities of the high-altitude balloon.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Now, the military also made an additional point which it doesn't often talk about in public.

  The U.S. spies on China. It flies satellites over China. It flies aircraft off the coast of China. The U.S. doesn't want Beijing to start instinctively shooting at U.S. assets that are near China or above China, just like it doesn't want — just like it didn't fire instinctively at this balloon.

  And take a listen to Lieutenant General Douglas Sims, the director for operations on the Joint Staff.

• Lt. Gen. Douglas Sims II, Director For Operations, Joint Staff:

  If we establish that precedent, that precedent may be met — we may meet the same precedent, in which case, as opposed to thinking and looking and then reacting, we may create something in which we are — is to our detriment.

• Nick Schifrin:

  But the balloon flying so low over U.S. airspace and the size of this program, Amna, are unprecedented, as are the bipartisan questions of how the administration has operated in the last week, which continue.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So, Nick, where does this leave the relations between U.S. and China?

• Nick Schifrin:

  Relations had been getting a little bit better since President Biden met with Xi Jinping in November.

  But since the balloon incident, Secretary Blinken canceled his trip, no rescheduling yet. Secretary Austin picked up the phone. No answer from Beijing. And so it does seem like things are getting worse.

  But President Biden last night to Judy Woodruff said, no, this is not changing U.S.-China relations. And the officials I talked to explain that thinking. One, they still want dialogue with Beijing. And, two, they didn't learn anything they didn't already know about Beijing from this balloon.

  As Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman said today, China's become more repressive at home more aggressive abroad, and the balloon is just evidence of that.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Nick Schifrin, thank you very much.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Thank you.